Talk:History of Native Americans in the United States

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): NJHaley1776 (article contribs).

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): JRVU12345.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jkwambai.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Pretty Racist Article

So the only pictures of native people that could be found are ones after they started dressing in Non-Native American manner. To this day there are pictures, graphics that depict the natives in their original attire. How come none of the so-called editors, etc of Wikipedia choose to include them? I get blocked when I try to correct the racism in Wikipedia article so I am stuck posting in the TALK section. When will the biases against non-white humans end?? --2604:2000:DDD1:4900:B5FC:4ED7:8687:22F9 (talk) 16:31, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Nonsensical and insulting ranting doesn't help matters. The European images of the American Indians portray them in the clothes they were wearing at the time of contact and, if anything, are "orientalized" with a fascination by their otherness. What do you think "true" Native American clothing consisted of? — LlywelynII 23:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

You're right, awful article. they still got that land bridge crap right up top even tho its been disproven for years Bangi Gekek (talk) 17:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#History

The content of this article was copied from Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#History which is a very long article which would benefit from creation of this subarticle. References here need to be cleared up and that section edited and summarized. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in History of Native Americans in the United States

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of History of Native Americans in the United States's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "remini_submit_adoption":

• From Muscogee people: Remini, Robert. ""Brothers, Listen ... You Must Submit"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 258. ISBN 0-9650631-0-7.
• From Native Americans in the United States: Remini, Robert (1977, 1998). ""Brothers, Listen ... You Must Submit"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 258. ISBN 0-06-080132-8. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
• From Choctaw: Remini, Robert (1977, 1998). ""Brothers, Listen ... You Must Submit"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 258. ISBN 0-9650631-0-7. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)

Reference named "perdue":

• From Native Americans in the United States: Perdue, Theda (2003). "Chapter 2 "Both White and Red"". Mixed Blood Indians: Racial Construction in the Early South. The University of Georgia Press. p. 51. ISBN 0-8203-2731-X.
• From Treaty of New Echota: Perdue, Theda (2004). The Cherokee Removal: A Brief History with Documents. ISBN 0-312-08658-X. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• From Trail of Tears: Perdue, Theda (2003). "Chapter 2 'Both White and Red'". Mixed Blood Indians: Racial Construction in the Early South. The University of Georgia Press. p. 51. ISBN 0-8203-2731-X.

Reference named "remini_reform_begins":

• From Native Americans in the United States: Remini, Robert (1977, 1998). ""The Reform Begins"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 201. ISBN 0-06-080132-8. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
• From Choctaw: Remini, Robert (1977, 1998). ""The Reform Begins"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 201. ISBN 0-9650631-0-7. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
• From Muscogee people: Remini, Robert. ""The Reform Begins"". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 201. ISBN 0-9650631-0-7.
• From Five Civilized Tribes: Remini, Robert. "The Reform Begins". Andrew Jackson. History Book Club. p. 201. ISBN 0-9650631-0-7.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 13:19, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Lead is way too long

By my count the lead contains 23 paragraphs. But WP:LEAD says:

The appropriate length of the lead section depends on the total length of the article. As a general guideline—not an absolute rule—the lead should normally be no longer than four paragraphs. The following suggestion may be useful:

Article length	Lead length
Fewer than 15,000 characters	One or two paragraphs
15,000–30,000 characters	Two or three paragraphs
More than 30,000 characters	Three or four paragraphs

Can someone break up the lead in a way that is consistent with the flow of the rest of the article? Thanks. Duoduoduo (talk) 21:46, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Nonsensical sentence

There is a sentence at the end of the paragraph starting, "The Clovis culture," which is in the "Native Development Prior to European Contact" section, that makes no sense. It reads, "The culture is identified by the distinctive Clovis point, a flaked flint spear-point with a notched flute, by which it was insecarbon-dating methods produced results of 11,050 and 10,800 radiocarbon years BP (roughly 9100 to 8850 BCE)." I would fix it but I don't know enough about the topic (or have any idea what the writer was trying to say). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.255.64 (talk) 16:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Maybe 'History' is a Misleading Title

I don't know the precedent for this and it might be pedant but 2/3 of this article isn't history, it's prehistory until columbus and then it's parahistory for at least another 100 years; for the sake of movement between articles it doesn't seem to make much sense to be able to go from History of Native Americans to Post-Archaic Native America. In wikipedias own "History" article it reads, "History is the study of the past as it is described in written document," yet I think someone forgot to cite the document used to prove the claim, "The history of Native Americans in the United States began in ancient times tens of thousands of years ago with the settlement of the Americas by the Paleo-Indians," a vague, boring, and contradictory opener to a confused article. I don't think it requires a conflicting source case for us to change the category, name, and maybe even split the article up and re-allocate the redirect links towards this article, thoughts? Mr. Mitochondria (talk) 06:06, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

What about Canada and such?

History of Native Americans in Canada does not exist. Would it makes sense to rename this article to just History of Native Americans or such, as it covers history before US was established anyway? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:13, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Migration to the Americas section might need Updating/Rewrites.

New studies show that the land bridge was possibly not biologically viable for humans to have survived crossing until around 12,600 years ago. New research is showing that by that time, humans had already inhabited the Americas. Meaning they would have had to arrive before the land bridge was even remotely crossable. Some studies also seem to show that Coastal Migration is, seemingly, more plausible. Would it be possible for someone to either fix this, or at the least, update the information?

Coastal Migration Link.

New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile.

Pre-Clovis occupation 14,550 years ago at the Page-Ladson site, Florida, and the peopling of the Americas.

Simple technologies and diverse food strategies of the Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene at Huaca Prieta, Coastal Peru.

MarineFool (talk) 05:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

References

Working on 19th century section

I have been researching Indigenous history within the United states and I would like to contribute to the 19th century section. I would like to add a brief introduction, giving an overview of what took place during that century. I would also like to add some more specific information about the some 300 plus treaties that took place during the 19th century.MistsofIxChel (talk) 17:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 21 January 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved without prejudice against an RM on the main Native Americans in the United States article. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:54, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

---

History of Native Americans in the United States → History of Native Americans – At the moment History of Native Americans is a redirect to Native Americans#History for some reason. Per WP:CRITERIA, it's more WP:CONCISE and natural. Also, the article includes Native American history predating the establishment of the US so the proposed title would more accurately match its de facto scope. Pre-emptively addressing the point that having US in the title avoids confusion with other Indigenous peoples of the Americas, the Native Americans in the US are the clear WP:Primary topic, and any confusion can be solved with a hatnote at the top. Thanks Kowal2701 (talk) 22:31, 21 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Dr vulpes (Talk) 23:38, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate the pre-emption and would probably accept it except that Native Americans is a disambiguation page that says the term usually refers to Native Americans in the United States. There has even at least one RM that failed to establish consensus that Native Americans in the US are the clear WP:Primary topic. It may be worth revisiting the the topic with a new RM involving the other two pages but in the meantime I lean towards oppose in the interest maintaining consistency as this article is subtopic of Native Americans in the United States. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 06:48, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. While "Native Americans" typically refers to "Native Americans in the United States" here within Wikipedia, that use is not universal. Outside of Wikipedia, "Native Americans" can also refer to "Indigenous peoples of the Americas" or Indigenous peoples of certain countries besides just the United States. History of Native Americans should be changed to redirect to this article as opposed to Native Americans in the United States#History. Yuchitown (talk) 17:07, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  But if History of Native Americans becomes a redirect here, why not make it the title per WP:Concise? Kowal2701 (talk) 17:11, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  For the reason I just spelled out above. Native American does not automatically mean "Native Americans in the United States" in the world outside of Wikipedia. Yuchitown (talk) 17:17, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  How about History of Native Americans (US)? It’s that the current title implies the scope of the article is only from 1776 onwards that is the biggest issue Kowal2701 (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  Using an abbreviation for United States doesn't change that. Yuchitown (talk) 21:13, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  It does because it makes it clear the US is there for disambiguation rather than for determining scope. Kowal2701 (talk) 21:52, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

  "In the United States" is geographical not chronological. Anyway, don't want to debate this endlessly. The current title is fine, and I've already voted to oppose. Yuchitown (talk) 01:50, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

  I agree with History of Native Americans (United States). Rafts of Calm (talk) 13:14, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Support, title and contents of article do not acknowledge the presence of Native Americans in Canada. Sushidude21! (talk) 02:32, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Indigenous peoples in Canada covers the First Nations in Canada, Inuit, and Métis in Canada. Indigenous peoples of Canada do not refer to themselves as "Native American". As Native Americans points out, "Native Americans or Native American usually refers to Native Americans in the United States." Yuchitown (talk) 16:18, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

• Support - anyone familiar with the topic follows academic norms. Only in the United States is the term native applied to a group of people.Moxy🍁 16:42, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

  "Native American" is sometimes used in Panama to refer to Indigenous peoples in Panama (e.g. they have Native American Heritage Month; Kindler Syndrome in Native Americans From Panama; Y-Chromosome Variability in Four Native American Populations from Panama, etc.), but in the outside world, not on Wikipedia. Yuchitown (talk) 22:21, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose - Article is a subtopic of Native Americans in the United States. Should request Native Americans in the United States be moved to Native Americans first, which I would support, however I can't support moving the subtopic while the main topic is different.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 18:31, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
• Comment I agree with the comments saying that it would make more sense to have a discussion about whether Native Americans in the US is the WP:Primary topic for Native Americans as if successful that’d render this move obsolete. Not sure which evidence to use for the proposal though. I’ve seen people talk about how they can see what readers click on after reaching a disambiguation page, as that’d be quite useful here, but not sure how to do that Kowal2701 (talk) 19:40, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose, this article is a WP:CONSUB of Native Americans in the United States, not Native Americans which is a dab. The main article should be proposed to cut off United States rather than this one. DankJae 19:54, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose - The proposed move does not make the title "more concise", it makes it inaccurate. The arguments made above by Yuchitown, Oncamera are sound. Netherzone (talk) 05:03, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.